Warhammer Online on a MacBook 2008 running XP
We installed Windows XP using Boot Camp on our MacBook 2008 to put the graphics chip to the ultimate test: Windows gaming.
One of the questions that has been on everyone's minds since Apple announced their new laptops on Tuesday has been whether the improved NVIDIA graphics cards that Steve Jobs spent so much time discussing on stage would mean that Apple's newer laptops would make good gaming machines. While it's unlikely that Apple is going to make any large moves towards becoming a new gaming platform to rival the current PC market, these new graphics cards combined with OS X's Boot Camp, which allows you to install Windows XP or Vista on a separate partition on your Mac's hard drive, allow Mac owners to install all the PC games they want on that partition. The big question is: can the MacBook really handle the graphics required by graphic-intensive games built for PC gaming machines?
Obsessable answers with a tentative yes. We installed Windows XP Professional on a 32GB partition on our new 2.4Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo powered MacBook with 2GBs of RAM. Then, we installed Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning, a MMPORG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game), that was released in September and has some very impressive graphics. We hit one snag in installation when the installer told us that there were not adequate permissions to continue, however, navigating to the Program folder in Windows and creating a new game folder to install into fixed the problem. After the 13GB game (yes, it's a big game) was fully installed, we launched it, and the video below shows what we experienced.
A few notes on the video before you watch it: For some reason, the reflectiveness of the screen is more noticeable on video than in person. The odd yellow looking face and eyes appearing in the corner of the screen are from a painting on an easel that was behind me when I was filming, and I didn't notice it until I was reviewing the video. Also, any pixelation in the video is compression artifacts from the MPEG-4 Sanyo camera, iMovie editing, and compressing and uploading to YouTube. In person, there was no pixelation during game play, just a few jittery moments when I had the texture mapping graphics set to their highest and most detailed. These were very few and far between, however.
Now that you've been warned, check out the 2-part video by clicking on the Continue Reading link below...
Part 1:
Part 2:
Yes, the new MacBook can play Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning, but you may want to invest in an external mouse, because using the trackpad is a bit finicky to say the least.
If you have no interest in games whatsoever, you should still skip to the end of the video to hear what I have to say about the MacBook's trackpad. You can also see the Obsessable unboxing pictures of the MacBook 2008 from yesterday as well as Obsessable's first hands-on video.
Get more information on topics relating to this story:
- Related company news:
- Apple
- Related glossary terms:
- NVIDIA, Boot Camp
- Related brand news:
- Apple MacBook
- Related devices and services:
- Apple MacBook 2008
Big Nexus One update includes 3G fix, multi-touch, Google Goggles image-based search
Comments (55)
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Brian Alvey
(10:53 AM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
Very cool videos. I'm using Parallels for Windows XP work. Should I be using Boot Camp? Is there a performance difference?
C.K. Sample III
(11:34 AM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
Boot Camp necessitates rebooting the computer, so you cannot use it alongside your Mac desktop experience like you can with Parallels. However, that also means that you're not splitting resources between the two platforms. So if you're doing high end, processor heavy things, like playing video games in Windows, Boot Camp is a clear winner. If you need to switch back and forth between the platforms, then Parallels / VMWare is a better solution. Maybe we should do a feature on this...
Brian Alvey
(12:39 PM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
I'm sure I knew that and that's why I picked Parallels. Thanks!
MarkA
(9:59 AM on Thu Oct 23, 2008)
Brian-
I currently run Windows via Parallels AND Boot Camp (BC) simultaneously. Instead of creating a virtual instance of Windows (XP, SP3), Parallels directly picks and runs the "My Boot Camp" partition. I thought I would only run this set-up occasionally--i.e., run Boot Camp-direct for Windows stuff and only via Parallels in a pinch. But , because I really like to have OSX active, and in observing little or no performance loss in Windows performance in this configuration, I always run Windows via Parallels+BC. As a reference, I do a lot of MS Access work that includes the execution of some processor-intensive queries. I can still run these QUICKER via Parallels+BC than on my Dell Workstation.
If you want to try this set-up, I recommend you back-up whatever data you have running in the virtual Windows set-up you may currently have. But, if you only have your Windows data stored in the Boot Camp partition or in a NON-Parallels system folder on your "Macintosh HD", then you should have no trouble finding it again after you re-gear your Parallels set-up.
Finally, this is the link I found that tuned me in to this configuration:
http://lifehacker.com/software/geek-to-live/virtualize-an...+boot-the-same-windows-on-your-mac-267905.php
This article will give you some more background on both BC and Parallels--a whole bunch of user experience/comments included. The article also provides the steps to install this configuration. Granted, I went through the process when my MacBook was out of the box this past May (Black MacBook, 2.4GHz , Intel Core 2 Duo, max[4GB] RAM). So, I had no data-loss worries. That said, I followed the instructions in the article to a 'T' and had no trouble. And, if you already have BC set-up, you should be able to skip right to the step under the heading "Virtualize Windows with Parallels".
Hope this may be helpful. Especially with the release of the updated graphics in the new MacBook, I cannot see why anyone would want to limit their hardware to a Windows-only machine ever again.
Good Luck and Enjoy!
Virgil Nilson (10:58 AM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
I bought a new aluminum and black MBP (the 2.53 ghz, 4 gig, 512 mb vid card version) yesterday and towards the night tried to play Warhammer on it. It seemed to work fine for the first 45 minutes, then suddenly the screen went black, sound continued to play for a few seconds, then that froze as well. A few seconds later the gray screen came up and played the sound that it would when you power on your MBP, then it went back to a black screen and stayed there doing nothing for about 30 seconds until I finally pushed the power button.
The next two times I tried to play, it would do the same thing within 5 minutes. The fan gets really loud very quickly, so I'm assuming the video card is overheating.
Finally, I tried installing two other video drivers, both resulted in me instantly bluescreening when I booted up Windows. I ended up having to boot into safemode and rollback the drivers.
C.K. Sample III
(11:38 AM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
I didn't experience any problems like that when I was playing last night. Did you run the Boot Camp installer from your install CD before installing WAR?
Virgil Nilson (9:35 AM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
Yes, I did. The drivers are the latest 2.1 Bootcamp drivers. Did you play the game for an extended period of time? Try letting it run for an hour or two. I tried to play it again last night, but only for about 10 minutes. I noticed that once again it began getting very hot, very quickly, and the fan began ramping up accordingly, but it did not crash within those 10 minutes.
Virgil Nilson (10:34 AM on Sun Oct 19, 2008)
Well, turns out it really does make a difference if you uninstall video drivers before you install new ones (call me a newbie). I finally went ahead and uninstalled the bootcamp video card drivers, then got the latest nvidia drivers of laptopvideo2go, and was able to play for about 2 hours straight last night without a crash.
C.K. Sample III
(1:12 PM on Sun Oct 19, 2008)
Glad you got it sorted out. I have continued to play with no problems and for extended periods of time using the default Boot Camp drivers. This is on XP Professional, though, so it could be a Vista issue. I may uninstall the drivers and download the ones you mention directly from NViDIA and see if I notice even better performance. I hooked up a 24-inch screen to the MacBook and then I started to see some slight jerkiness. I've been trying a variety of games and will have a full PC video game round up post coming sometime soon.
Virgil Nilson (2:37 PM on Sun Oct 19, 2008)
Well, I guess a difference isn't a complete solution. Today I began crashing again, although it seemed to be a bit more erratic, generally giving me a longer time to play (the first crash took about an hour, subsequent crashes
C.K. Sample III
(1:19 PM on Tue Oct 21, 2008)
That's definitely odd. I haven't had any such issues on my XP installation on the MacBook.
Mr T (5:13 AM on Thu Nov 13, 2008)
Its not odd. The game client is unstable. Lots and lots of people have problems with this game crashing to desktop now and then. It has nothing to do with the fact that you run it on a Mac.
DandyTiger (1:47 PM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
Excellent test. Great to hear this works. One question though, did you have to do anything special for drivers for this new nvidia graphics chipset? Or did you not have to do anything special when you setup bootcamp and installed XP? Oh, one more question, is that 32bit XP or 64bit XP?
C.K. Sample III
(2:14 PM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
Hey, DandyTiger,
64bit XP won't install via Boot Camp, so it's 34bit. After instaling Windows XP Pro via Boot Camp, I just had to put the installation disk that came with the MacBook in and it auto-installed Boot Camp tools that included the appropriate NVIDIA drivers.
DandyTiger (4:02 PM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
Sounds good. Thanks for the info C.K. Looks like a winner to me. I'm going to configure a 4MB version for myself. I wonder if that will make a difference with WAR. Even with an onboard graphics that uses regular memory, I'm guessing it won't matter since the onboard graphic memory usage is limited to 128K anyway. But you never know.
Congratulations to Apple and Nvidia for making a great product. Now if they can just update the OS and/or drivers for the MBP so you don't have to reboot to change graphics chip usage. That's very silly. For me, the MB is a better deal right now.
DandyTiger (4:04 PM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
Oops, meant 4GB of RAM of course. Slightly different. And similarly 128M not 128K for graphics memory usage. Opsie. :-)
Anonymous (11:11 AM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
Brian Alvey: Parallels/Fusion and Boot Camp are very different. Parallels and Fusion are virtual machines and use a limited amount of the total system resources. It is possible to play games; however, your choices are extremely limited. Boot Camp allows you to run Windows natively without having OS X running.
Virgil Nilson: I have been playing Warhammer for a while on my MBP (2.5Ghz 512 8600M GT). The GPU will get extremely hot while in Windows. I think this is partially due to poor fan control. If you download smcFanControl for OS X, you can manually set the fan speed to 6000 rpm and then reboot in Windows. The settings will stay and it will keep your machine cool while gaming. Another bit of advice is to either use a laptop stand or anything to prop up the corners and allow air to flow under your laptop. A laptop cooler make work better but I haven't needed to go that far.
Anonymous (12:37 PM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
You should be able to use the trackpad exactly as you have been on previous laptops (unless Windows does something funky). Click and hold with your thumb on the bottom edge and use your index finger to drag/lift/drag.
Poormojo (7:56 PM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
I've been running WAR on my MacBook since beta. It works fine. Bootcamp does wonders for Mac gaming.
Anonymous (10:26 AM on Tue Jan 6, 2009)
I think i'm gonna buy a notebook
now i'm lvl 28 so tier 3
when i buy the MB and have the BC all setup and install WAR is it gonna run then or do you need to install some extra stuff
PS this is like T1 so not real heavy
are T3 and T4 ok?
Anonymous (6:23 PM on Thu Oct 16, 2008)
Just wondering, when booting xp and playing games like warhammer, are you able to choose which gpu it uses? Or does the system (xp) automatically use the 9600 gpu?
C.K. Sample III
(5:22 AM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
The MacBook only has one GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 9400M. The MacBook Pro has 2.
Anonymous (1:32 PM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
What about the Macbook Pro? Which card does it use? Or do you have to switch to turbo mode in OSX, then boot to Windows?
Anonymous (12:23 AM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
In windows it will default to the 9600 GT you cannot choose the 9400 on the MBP
Mystic (10:00 AM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
Warhammer kicks ass! I've been playing on a 2.4 iMac with 4GB RAM and it runs pretty well except in large RVR keep battles. Thanks for this article CK Sample III.
Can you comment on the performance in large Open RvR keep sieges and scenarios? Thanks!!
C.K. Sample III
(10:13 AM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
Hey, Mystic,
I should get a chance to RvR this weekend. After I do it a bit, I'll report back here.
Cheers,
C.K.
Skyldig (11:58 AM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
That would be so great. Can't wait ;)
If you want to test some FPS, this addon will help: (it's not 100% accurate, but it's close at least)
http://war.curse.com/downloads/war-addons/details/approxf...
C.K. Sample III
(1:20 PM on Tue Oct 21, 2008)
That add-on didn't download properly for me, but i did play more games this weekend. Should have a round up report on them all up here tomorrow.
neochi (11:36 AM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
do u think the 2Ghz model can do WAR in the same way? Couse i don´t know witch i must buy ;)
C.K. Sample III
(11:50 AM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
neochi, both models *should* be able to play WAR equally well b/c they share the same NVIDIA graphics chip and both of their processors are faster than the minimum required by the game. That being said, the difference in processor speed may have some effect on performance, and of course, with the entry-level MacBook, you won't get the wonderful backlit keyboard for joining the WAAAAAGH in the dark. ;-)
seth brundle (6:40 PM on Sat Oct 18, 2008)
I just finished installing this in Vista on the same 2008 MacBook under boot camp.
When I start it, it says the video card does not meet minimum specifications!
wtf?
how come it didnt get this error under xp?
it is a sharp stick in the eye to spend the 2 hours downloading the digital version of this game, unpacking, installing, patching, THEN getting this error. wtf.
C.K. Sample III
(8:24 PM on Sat Oct 18, 2008)
Hey Seth,
That's odd. Did you install the NVIDIA driver by putting your OS X install disk in while booted in Windows and installing the Boot Camp support software and drivers? The graphics card should be plenty powerful enough to handle WAR on the MBP; sounds like a driver issue.
Cheers,
C.K.
seth brundle (7:10 PM on Sat Oct 18, 2008)
vista is no fun under boot camp with the new trackpad. war would be impossible with all of the right-clicking,
right-clicking can only be accomplished by clicking down the trackpad with THREE fingers - right-click dragging I have just given up on. highlighting text with the trackpad sometimes doesnt 'stick' when you pull your finger up.
you can configure tap-clicking, but i have found that it can sometimes incur a massive delay under macos, and again right-click dragging is very difficult and not natural at all. you cant tap-right-click under windows. its all a mess. it might go back.
Skyldig (1:27 PM on Sun Oct 19, 2008)
So, did you get to try some intense RvR on the Macbook? My current laptop plays PvE fine (read: decent, but very playable) on high settings, but when I start RvR with 10+ players on the screen I start to count seconds per frame, even with the settings on lowest.
Thanks for the videos btw. Thet were really nice and informative.
seth brundle (7:50 PM on Sun Oct 19, 2008)
i actually got this to work but im not sure how.
I think it was when I installed the video driver from directly out of the drivers dieectory on the mac install dvd.
Gustav (7:26 AM on Sat Oct 18, 2008)
i'm thinking about buying my first macbook and this is my only concern:
what do you think about diablo III? will it be able to run well on the new entry-level macbook? i mean, apple's so proud about the 9400 m but they are only comparing it to the old x3100.
cheers, Gustav
C.K. Sample III
(1:22 PM on Tue Oct 21, 2008)
We won't really know until Diablo III comes out, but so far, everything I've thrown at the MacBook has been playable on it, including Bioshock. I hope Diablo III runs fine on it. I love the Diablo series.
Anonymous (3:51 AM on Fri Oct 17, 2008)
Did you guys try some intense RvR combat (like a scenario) on the MB? I'm currently playing WAR on a GF8400M GS card (wich scores slightly lower on most 3dMark tests that the 9400M) and I've noticed that lag usually multiplies in RvR battles.
The 8400M GS lets me play on lowest settings with a good amount of screenlag.
If you have the time to shoot a video of some intense RvR gaming that would be awesome. I currently have a hard time choosing between the low-end MBP and the high-end MB. I like the portability of the MB, and a test video like that would make the desision so much easier ;)
C.K. Sample III
(1:23 PM on Tue Oct 21, 2008)
I played some RvR this weekend with no issues whatsoever using the built-in screen, but some lag when trying to run the game on an external 24-inch monitor. I'll have a full report up tomorrow.
Anonymous (9:33 PM on Thu Oct 23, 2008)
do you think windows xp professional versus windows xp super-cheap $90 edition would make any difference, assuming it's at least service pack 2?
Anonymous (10:27 AM on Fri Oct 24, 2008)
i think you're thinking of the update, not the full windows install.
ben (3:27 PM on Sat Oct 25, 2008)
I have an early 2008 macbook 4g ram 2.4 duo proc, blah blah, the rest is standard macbook, but I cannot play warhammer. I open it and it gets to the character select, but when I go to play it it sits on the loading screen for a long time, then that goes black except for the WH symbol in the bottom right that rewrites itself while the game loads. No on else seems to have this problem anywhere online... Im running full mac os and windows xp pro sp2, though when i go to the bootcamp section of the apple support site and it says to download a certain driver, right from that site, that driver fails to install. it cannot find the hardware for the driver... would this be a problem with my card?
C.K. Sample III
(12:34 PM on Mon Oct 27, 2008)
What graphics card does your model MacBook have?
ben (8:34 PM on Wed Oct 29, 2008)
im not sure, but it is whichever one is default in the early 2008 macbook (the newest except for the one thats been out for like 3 weeks)
Anonymous (12:38 AM on Mon Oct 27, 2008)
I have a MacBook Pro and have been running both WAR and Warcraft very smoothly for quite some while (under Vista OS). No problems at all. My ram is 2gb on a 2.5GHz chip.
Evren (4:59 PM on Fri Dec 12, 2008)
How do I even get bootcamp? It says it is on the leopard?? But I just seem to be lost right now. Can someone tell me how to get it and how to install? I really want to play WAR.
Thank you.
C.K. Sample III
(6:22 PM on Fri Dec 12, 2008)
Boot Camp Assistant should be inside the Utility folder inside your Applications folder. Launch it, follow the instructions for partitioning your hard drive, insert your XP / Vista disk and choose install now to restart your computer and begin installation of Windows. After install is complete, insert your Leopard disk while running Windows to install the Boot Camp drivers.
j35u5 (10:35 PM on Wed Jan 14, 2009)
I tried this on my new macbook, the 2.0Ghz version...It didn't run so well at all. I'm wondering if the 0.4 difference in processor speed makes a huge difference, or if it possibly linked to the ammount of hard drive space that I used for Windows with boot camp - if I remember correctly I used something like 40G. Anyone else using the 2.0Ghz have any feedbacks or helpful tips?
thorough (6:01 AM on Thu May 21, 2009)
Hat's off. Well done, as we know that "Hard work always pays off", what a game man. hats off to the makers.
thorough
When you wake up in the morning you have the choice to achieve anything you want. Do not waste another do reading stupid web comments...get out there and live life!
Warhammer Europe Gold
Anonymous (7:09 PM on Mon Jul 13, 2009)
when i try to play the game it tells me the video card dosent have the minimum specs to play why does that happen can somebody tell me
helen (4:51 AM on Fri Jul 31, 2009)
great news! i'd like to try it! just wondered if my mcbook is suitable for anything like that, didn't want to buy anything new yet... just read smth on the topic at some other blogs I found with the help of http://www.picktorrent.com engine and heard the experience of some friends. still wasn't sure about it, but your article really impressed me. thanks a lot!
Jake
(10:18 AM on Wed Oct 14, 2009)
Oh thats great mac can run windows xp!mini beagle well windows could run mac os boxer dog breed but they have no need to because it doesnt offer anything better than windows :l
rich
(4:52 PM on Sun Nov 15, 2009)
warhammer is an underrated training game in my opinion. It makes me feel like a boxer. Games such as dog world of warcraft are extremely overrated. It takes a lot of training time and even my boxer dog gets bored watching that game.
audio chat video
(8:15 AM on Tue Dec 22, 2009)
Well, this is my first visit to your blog! But I admire time and effort you put into it, especially into interesting articles you share here!
James,
Road Trip
(10:14 AM on Mon Feb 8, 2010)
I do not really know until Diablo III comes out, but so far everything I've thrown into the MacBook has been played on him, including Bioshock. I hope that Diablo III will run fine on it. I love the Diablo series.